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Caribbean Rhythms Episode 135: Homer Part Two

Caribbean Rhythms Episode 135, "Homer Part Two" was released on April 25, 2023. You can listen to the first hour for free, subscribe for the full episode, or follow the discussion on Twitter.

Below are annotated timestamps of the episode. Any corrections are greatly appreciated in the comments.

Books/Essays Mentioned

If you have any thoughts on best translations of Iliad/Odyssey/Genealogy of Morals, or whether translation quality of these books matters, please mention them in the comments.

Annotated Timestamps

00:00:31: BAP discusses the significance of Homer's Iliad in shaping the ancient world, comparing its influence to that of Christ in the New World.

00:01:14: BAP introduces Caribbean Rhythms episode 135, focusing on commentaries about Homer.

00:01:30: BAP acknowledges the delay in the podcast release and shares his experiences with nightclub workers.

00:03:38: BAP uses a fish freshness analogy to describe people on the street.

00:04:29: BAP recounts his attempts to enter elegant nightclub lounges while wearing workout shorts and carrying grocery bags, usually being denied entry.

00:05:12: BAP shares a story of going to a bar with a friend in Rome, carrying a grocery bag with toilet paper and iced tea

00:06:11: BAP discusses Japan's strict closing times at establishments and his frustration about it

00:07:48: BAP talks about talking to himself on the street when he gets excited about something

00:08:41: BAP recommends a Japanese horror movie called "Maribito" and discusses hidden pathways and hidden parts of life in cities

00:09:32: BAP reflects on the effects of the Wuhan crisis, lockdowns, and the realization of the meaninglessness of social relations and work

00:10:38: BAP connects the Wuhan crisis with the Fukushima disaster and a crisis of motivation

00:10:49: BAP discusses AI and its potential to replace jobs, clarifying that he is not against AI in general

00:11:27: BAP mentions GPT and its potential benefits for graphic designers

00:12:47: BAP talks about Papa Doc Duvalier, dictator of Haiti, and how he created a black middle class

00:15:01: BAP criticizes jobs that are unproductive, like HR, which he believes AI could replace

00:16:05: BAP compares AI to a normal person simulator and questions whether most humans could pass the Turing test

00:17:26: BAP shares his experiences conversing with "normal fags" from different cultures and the homogenization of conversations

00:18:37: BAP connects his AI discussion to the Fukushima disaster and how pre-existing problems at the nuclear plant were not addressed due to human error

00:19:41: BAP discusses Nietzsche's first essay from "Genealogy of Morals" and the distinction between good and evil, good and bad, and master and slave morality.

00:20:08: BAP talks about the Greek nobility and the word "estros," which means noble.

00:20:45: BAP explains the connection between nobility and truthfulness in ancient Greek culture.

00:21:12: BAP contrasts the noble man with common people, who are seen as empty vessels or AI NPCs.

00:21:36: BAP mentions the Orthodox Jewish belief that there are only 144,000 men with souls in the world.

00:22:18: BAP shares his thoughts on GPT AI, encouraging users to double-check its facts as it is good at confidently lying.

00:22:52: BAP gives examples of GPT AI's failures when asked to list specific information.

00:23:15: BAP concludes that GPT AI does not work well as a search engine and suggests users should double-check its information.

00:23:56: BAP considers replacing unmotivated salarymen with AI in various industries

00:24:52: BAP discusses the death of belief and religion in the modern era

00:25:31: BAP talks about the decline in motivation and IQ in the modern world

00:26:15: BAP suggests authoritarianism as a potential solution to fix motivation

00:27:20: BAP argues that authoritarianism alone cannot fix the motivation problem, citing Soviet Union's example

00:28:22: BAP describes the bleak life of Japanese salarymen

00:29:57: BAP contemplates the role of AI in compensating for declining human capital and motivation

00:30:26: BAP warns against depriving men of ownership and expecting different results

00:31:34: BAP uses the example of Central Americans and the Incas to illustrate the consequences of exterminating the spirited part of mankind

00:34:34: BAP discusses the importance of Homer's poems to 21st-century Europeans, emphasizing their core role in European civilization, literature, and imagination.

00:34:54: BAP suggests that in times of rapid change, people need continuity and stability provided by works like Homer's.

00:35:23: BAP recommends Dominique Venner's "A Handbook for Dissidents" and describes it as a good introduction to important problems faced by the European right.

00:35:51: BAP discusses the concept of "in sumi" (defiance) from Venner's book and expresses his dislike for the word "dissident."

00:36:12: BAP talks about how various thinkers, including Dostoevsky, Montaigne, and Gerstner, share similar sentiments about Homer's works.

00:36:27: BAP recounts a conversation where a Chinese official refers to the Iliad as the source code of the West.

00:36:35: BAP talks about Homer being the teacher of Greece and influencing Roman spirit as well.

00:36:49: BAP compares modern secularists to those of the 18th and 19th centuries, noting their different attitudes towards the Bible and European classical past.

00:37:50: BAP discusses how the left can more easily align the Bible with their views than they can with ancient Greek or Roman texts.

00:38:30: BAP mentions the idea that Marxism could be seen as a continuation of the prophetic tradition in the Old Testament.

00:38:47: BAP speculates that Christian Marxism might be a future religion, as there are attempts to synthesize the two ideologies.

00:39:12: BAP comments on the radical ideas being taught in some seminaries and divinity schools in the US.

00:39:28: BAP observes that the left has a harder time incorporating Greek or Roman texts into their ideology, often denouncing them as sources of white supremacist, hetero patriarchal, and colonialist ideas.

00:39:45: BAP discusses exploitation by the rich and Donna Zuckerberg's critique of right-wing engagement with classics.

00:39:51: BAP comments on Zuckerberg's difficulty in arguing against right-wing appropriation of classical heritage.

00:40:07: BAP mentions Emily Wilson's translation of the Odyssey and criticizes its distortions.

00:40:47: BAP talks about Wilson's upcoming translation of the Iliad and expects similar distortions and biased notes.

00:41:21: BAP discusses the left's secularism and its lack of attachment to classical heritage.

00:41:32: BAP compares the contemporary left to the Russian and French revolutions and claims it abhors the spirit of Rome and Greece.

00:41:56: BAP argues that the spirit of the West, particularly in Homer, is unique to European peoples and discusses its natural and cultural basis.

00:42:25: BAP describes Homer as the original source of a river fed by various European national cultures, emphasizing the spirit of feudal free men and warriors.

00:43:12: BAP talks about the true European spirit being absent in much of Europe and the Americas, and references Venner's anecdote from the Middle Ages.

00:43:36: BAP praises Venner's discussion of French history and the Middle Ages and how it connects with his appreciation of Homer, noting the spirit of epics remained even when transmission of Homer was interrupted.

00:43:57: BAP discusses the classical heritage and reads about Jacques de la lange, a young knight from the 15th century.

00:44:19: BAP talks about Jacques de la lange's accomplishments in tournaments and his death in the Battle of Pook.

00:44:40: BAP reads Jacques de la lange's epitaph and comments on the Iliad's influence on the concept of chivalry.

00:45:06: BAP discusses the noble and skilled men of the Iliad, who competed in courage and sought excellence in action.

00:45:32: BAP emphasizes the importance of always striving to be the best and excelling over others, as advised in the Iliad.

00:45:47: BAP connects the aristocratic drive for distinction and admiration of strength and beauty to the unique spirit of Europe.

00:46:17: BAP mentions other cultures that could become enamored with Homer, and the difficulty in formalizing this orientation in theory.

00:46:34: BAP praises Venner for emphasizing the differences between Homer's gods and those of other epics, and the lack of moral absolutes in Homer's works.

00:46:48: BAP discusses how the gods in Homer's works were not taken seriously and their interactions often provided comic relief.

00:47:12: BAP contrasts Homer's portrayal of gods with the more moralistic and legalistic approach found in other religions.

00:47:58: BAP describes how the Greek gods were not the creators of nature and how their worldview influenced other aspects of Greek culture, such as mathematics and philosophy.

00:48:38: BAP summarizes Venner's view of the spirit of Homer, which includes respect for nature, excellence as the end goal, and beauty as the horizon.

00:49:18: BAP emphasizes that Homer's portrayal of a noble way of life and heightened perception is shown in action, not in doctrine or formula.

00:49:36: BAP connects Homer's aristocratic and nature-loving sensibility to the intellectual achievements of the Greeks in the classical era.

00:49:36: BAP discusses the intellectual achievements of the Greeks in the classical era.

00:49:52: BAP reads a passage about how Greeks, inspired by Homer, became inventors of myths and sought rational explanations for phenomena.

00:50:40: BAP mentions the contributions of Thales of Miletus, Hecataeus of Miletus, Xenophanes, and Pythagoras to various fields.

00:51:14: BAP continues with the contributions of Heraclitus, Democritus, Euclid, Aristarchus, Herodotus, and Hippocrates.

00:51:45: BAP highlights the achievements of Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Praxiteles, and Phidias.

00:52:05: BAP reads a quote from Gibbon about the genius of Athens.

00:53:04: BAP references Galton's observation of the intelligence of Athenians during this time.

00:53:48: BAP discusses how the Iliad and the Odyssey represented the Greek genius and their observation of nature and individuality.

00:54:20: BAP talks about how Homer's characters are judged based on their nobility, generosity, and fairness rather than an abstract moral code.

00:54:35: BAP connects the Greek ethos to their achievements in sculpture, political institutions, and law.

00:54:44: BAP discusses the difference between individuality and individualism, mentioning Dominique Venner as an example of individuality.

00:54:55: BAP talks about Venner's suicide in Notre Dame Cathedral and his stance against gay marriage as a distraction from mass migration and the great replacement.

00:55:14: BAP explains that individualism is an ideology that reduces people to abstract, equal individuals, while individuality acknowledges significant differences between people.

00:55:57: BAP connects Greek sculpture and individuality, discussing the transition from archaic statues to more individualistic ones like the Kritios boy.

00:56:35: BAP relates the detailed, personal nature of the Iliad and its characters to Greek sculpture, emphasizing the appreciation of individuality and nature.

00:57:23: BAP connects Venner's appreciation of the Homeric spirit to later Greek achievements in arts and sciences, mentioning the work of various scholars who also recognize the connection.

00:57:46: BAP suggests that the Greeks saw human nature, both physical and emotional, as potentially divine, contrasting it with the conservative view.

00:58:30: BAP criticizes those who misunderstand the idea of deification in Greek thought, and contrasts it with the left's push for the debasement of mankind.

00:59:06: BAP concludes the segment by mentioning he will read more on the meaning of gods and human life from Homer.

00:59:06: BAP discusses human life and the meaning of the gods from Homer

00:59:48: BAP criticizes modern desires for long, mediocre lives compared to the grander lives of ancient heroes

01:02:08: BAP addresses Tucker Carlson leaving Fox News and its implications

01:03:21: BAP suggests a new class of billionaires should invest in media to promote alternative ideas

01:04:29: BAP proposes a new media platform with intelligent interviews and discussions on various subjects

01:06:24: BAP expresses uncertainty about Tucker Carlson's next move and his own lack of insight

01:06:30: BAP discusses Homer's legacy to European men as understood by Dominique Venner and other writers.

01:06:38: BAP highlights Homer's persistence throughout West European history despite periods of lost direct contact.

01:07:03: BAP wonders how the spirit of Homer continued in West Europe even when the book was not being read.

01:07:30: BAP posits that the spirit of Homer is rooted in the Aryan or Indo-European legacy of the steppe.

01:08:02: BAP relates Homer's world to the great inland sea of the steppe and the Mediterranean/Near East.

01:08:20: BAP suggests that Homer's spirit can be understood and accepted by those who share a similar spiritual biome.

01:09:03: BAP offers advice on how to approach reading Homer if it does not immediately resonate with the reader.

01:10:22: BAP explains that Homer represents the conflict between the free spirit of the steppe and the agricultural/palace-based civilizations of the Near East and Mediterranean.

01:10:50: BAP mentions Adam Nicholson's book "The Mighty Dead: Why Homer Matters" which explores the heroic steppe spirit in Homer.

01:11:00: BAP shares his view on preserving the free spirit of steppe and mountain peoples within the bounds of the city for the elite.

01:11:19: BAP argues that civilization without preserving the free spirit is a prison and that he would choose a Mongol free life over servile civilizations like ancient Babylon or Han China.

01:12:01: BAP notes that for Homer, a life of freedom, war, honor, and the search for glory in war was the ultimate aim, surpassing wealth and status.

01:12:40: BAP discusses Achilles' response to Agamemnon's gifts and apology

01:12:49: BAP reads from Nicholson, highlighting Achilles' contempt for material wealth and power

01:13:57: BAP talks about Achilles stepping outside the value system of the world

01:14:19: BAP shares Nicholson's description of humanity as cosmic homeless wanderers

01:15:11: BAP discusses the Iliad's central question: how to live one's life in the face of different values and choices

01:15:38: BAP mentions Achilles' character development throughout the poem

01:15:53: BAP reflects on Nicholson's comparison of Achilles to a Christ-like figure

01:16:14: BAP connects the Iliad's themes to biblical stories and the purity of the shepherd's life

01:16:28: BAP contrasts the Bible's portrayal of agriculture as drudgery with the Iliad's themes

01:16:46: BAP observes the popularity of outdoor activities and retreats among nationalist movements

01:17:13: BAP suggests that following his advice in his book might have helped prevent infiltration by certain groups

01:17:39: BAP emphasizes the importance of outdoor hiking and lifting weights as filters for the right

01:18:14: BAP criticizes the "face fag" right for focusing on public performances instead of more genuine activities

01:19:04: BAP mentions Evola's essays on mountaineering and its spiritual connection to awakening people to a different kind of life

01:19:18: BAP discusses Nicholson's book "The Mighty Dead" and its portrayal of Homer as a memory of the free warrior step spirit.

01:19:47: BAP highlights the importance of horses and the beauty of the idyllic step in summer in the book.

01:20:29: BAP talks about the drive for personal excellence and the desire to best all other men.

01:21:12: BAP mentions the desire for immortalization in song and eternal glory acquired through great feats of physical and spiritual display.

01:21:32: BAP brings up the appreciation for technology, speed, and its role in conquest in Homer's works.

01:22:33: BAP discusses the drive for personal excellence and the contest or Agon in Greek life.

01:23:01: BAP disagrees with Venner's view of Hector as the greater hero in the Iliad, arguing that Achilles was more significant for the Greeks.

01:24:19: BAP states that the spirit of Achilles drives Greek aristocrats to assert themselves in various aspects of life, including politics, athletics, and art.

01:24:44: BAP concludes by emphasizing that Achilles' greatness is not assured by his decorous actions but by his divine and biological manifestation.

01:25:04,681: BAP discusses the drive to be the best and how it is prized over gentlemanliness or justice.

01:25:37,742: BAP talks about Nietzsche's description of Achilles' spirit.

01:26:05,245: BAP mentions Paris from the Iliad, comparing him to a stallion who glories in his strength.

01:26:57,244: BAP shares his friendly argument with Blasius about the spirit of the nation and patriotism.

01:27:34,622: BAP expresses sadness over the conflict in Ukraine and the potential for similar situations elsewhere.

01:28:13,780: BAP considers the potential overthrow of the French Republic and the spirit of Hector.

01:28:57,740: BAP critiques populism and the reliance on the nation to rise up.

01:29:26,262: BAP emphasizes the importance of small, motivated groups realizing they are the true bearers of a nation's heritage and spirit.

01:29:49,521: BAP argues that the spirit of Achilles and Odysseus, combined in a brave and cunning mafia, is more relevant today than the spirit of Hector.

01:30:07: BAP wonders about the motivations of Gaddafi and Napoleon in taking over their nations at a young age

01:30:30: BAP takes a break, discussing deification and Homer when he returns

01:32:35: BAP talks about Homer's nation as an expression of aristocratic morality

01:32:55: BAP mentions that Marx exempted ancient Greece from his materialist class analysis

01:33:17: BAP suggests that Marx was perhaps too respectful of ancient Greeks to subject them to class analysis

01:33:36: BAP discusses how some Marxists in the 20th century attempted to apply class analysis to ancient Greek society and philosophies

01:34:12: BAP mentions Marxist attempts to analyze ancient Greek philosophies as representing different classes

01:34:44: BAP discusses Alasdair MacIntyre, who started as a Marxist but became a Christian virtue ethicist

01:35:17: BAP shares his experience with an Antifa-style Christian Marxist he knew years ago

01:36:07: BAP talks about the difficulty of converting people's beliefs and his own conversion to Nietzscheism at 16

01:37:03: BAP reflects on his past attraction to Platonist Borg and how his views have changed to find such projects abhorrent

01:37:31: BAP discusses MacIntyre the Christian Marxist and his analysis of Homeric ethics.

01:38:04: BAP reads from Second City Bureaucrat's criticism of MacIntyre's thinking on Homeric ethics.

01:39:07: BAP explores the modern moral implications of not being white, heterosexual, and male.

01:39:54: BAP quotes MacIntyre's explanation of the term "agathos" in Homeric Greece.

01:41:01: BAP explains that Homeric morality does not include deontic logic or related operators.

01:42:00: BAP discusses Odysseus blaming the suitors of Penelope and the lack of contingent psychological operators in Homeric morality.

01:43:02: BAP mentions a cruel type of ancient Greek judgment regarding loss of political rights for abused men.

01:43:25: BAP notes that responsibility in Homeric morality does not depend on whether something was done willingly or not.

01:43:38: BAP reads MacIntyre's explanation of Homeric shame and its relationship with social hierarchy.

01:44:08: BAP addresses MacIntyre's views on slaves not being part of the moral order in Homeric Greece.

01:45:26: BAP discusses MacIntyre's view on the effect of Persian invasions and Greek colonization on Homeric morality.

01:45:35: BAP explains MacIntyre's take on the Greek concept of nomos (custom) and its relation to morality.

01:46:16: BAP mentions the challenges Greeks faced with evolving cosmopolitanism.

01:47:08: BAP highlights MacIntyre's belief in a higher morality rooted in meta rules found in nature and ancient scriptures.

01:48:04: BAP critiques MacIntyre's view on the progression of ethics in Greek history.

01:48:33: BAP introduces the bureaucrat's argument on wokeness as a natural outcome of group competition under a cosmopolitan empire.

01:50:53: BAP discusses MacIntyre's deficiencies in understanding the Greek fascination with foreign lands and peoples.

01:52:27: BAP cites the beginning of the Odyssey as evidence of Greek interest in learning about foreign cultures.

01:54:38: BAP discusses systems of weights and measures as examples of conventions.

01:54:53: BAP mentions the idea of nature versus convention, using the example of cows being sacred in India but not in Greece.

01:55:29: BAP asks if all human morality is simply convention or if there is a natural human morality.

01:56:03: BAP criticizes MacIntyre's view on Greek philosophical development and Homadic morality.

01:56:20: BAP discusses the conflict in the Iliad over who is the best of the Achaeans.

01:57:00: BAP mentions that nature is a power outside even the divine in the Iliad and Odyssey.

01:57:38: BAP explains how Achilles is considered the best of the Achaeans by nature, not by convention.

01:58:11: BAP argues that might makes right is a doctrine of social instability, not stability.

01:59:07: BAP criticizes MacIntyre's Marxist approach to analyzing the Iliad and Odyssey.

02:00:06: BAP discusses how Odysseus reconstructs his status through his physical bearing, manner of speech, and kingly demeanor.

02:00:57: BAP emphasizes that goodness is inherent in the blood, lineage, and physical manifestation of the body in action.

02:01:16: BAP talks about the transition from primal conflict to formalized contests within the bounds of the city.

02:02:39: BAP reads from Venner, discussing gods as symbols of cosmic order.

02:02:55: BAP describes the goddess Strife from the Iliad and the allegory of divine intervention.

02:03:34: BAP compares Venner's text to Nietzsche's "Homer's Contest" essay, highlighting the idea of two strife goddesses.

02:05:08: Nietzsche's essay discusses the positive and negative aspects of strife in Greek ethics.

02:06:36: BAP explains Nietzsche's observation that Greeks, if allowed total victory, become immoderate and crazed.

02:07:45: BAP talks about the importance of competition and the Homeric contest to Greek life.

02:08:01: BAP cites the examples of Sparta and Athens surrendering to Persia.

02:08:12: BAP discusses Alexander the Great's impact on Greek history and the cosmopolitan Hellenism he created.

02:09:35: BAP links the idea of world conquest to Homer's contest and the judgment of who should be the best.

02:11:52: BAP discusses the tragic situation of certain peoples seeking empire, leading to their own destruction

02:12:07: BAP shares his favorite passage from Nietzsche on aristocratic morality

02:12:22: BAP mentions how Nietzsche's work is misinterpreted as left-wing

02:12:42: BAP reads a passage from Nietzsche about nobility and truthfulness

02:13:12: BAP talks about how the concept of the "true man" becomes associated with aristocracy and nobility

02:14:03: BAP connects Greek words for good and bad to qualities of bravery and cowardice

02:14:47: BAP discusses the etymology of words related to good and bad, noble and common in various languages

02:15:07: BAP talks about the racial aspect of these etymologies, such as the distinction between blonde and dark-haired people

02:16:04: BAP speculates on the possible influence of conquered races on modern democracy and socialism

02:16:34: BAP delves into the etymology of the Latin word "bonus," connecting it to warriors and duelers

02:17:00: BAP relates the German word for good to the concept of being god-like

02:17:26: BAP ends the podcast, hoping listeners enjoyed the discussion on Homer and Nietzsche's passages